Paul Le Blanc: ‘The key is struggle’

US historian Paul Le Blanc

Were you surprised by the election result?

It wasn’t clear to me who was going to win. I was hoping for a decisive defeat of Donald Trump. The only way to do that, is if there had been a fighting revolutionary policy to defeat Trump. It would have been a great idea, if only there had been an organisation that could have initiated such a struggle.

The standard criticisms of the Democratic Party hold true. It’s a pro-capitalist, imperialist party—and Kamala Harris made it clear that she stood on that terrain. Her rhetoric was pro-working class and against the billionaires on the one hand, but there wasn’t anything clear that differentiated her from the Democratic party.

According to the numbers I’ve seen, you know the Democratic Party lost over 10 million votes and one set of figures I saw indicated Trump lost 3 million. But a lot of people who would have made a difference didn’t vote.

In some areas, yes of course, Palestine played a big role. Overall, I think the biggest role was played in terms of the economic realities.

The working class has been betrayed by the Democratic Party over and over and over—that was a decisive factor.

I think race and gender to some extent was a factor. That could have been overcome, I think, if Harris had been seen by the working class majority as their candidate. But she wasn’t—and couldn’t be given the nature of the Democratic party.

I think that we are in for hard times with Trump. At the same time, I think it might have a radicalising impact among some people.

The key is the struggle against the bad things that are coming down. And ultimately, we need a movement but also an organisation—a revolutionary organisation. We do not have one and we need that badly.

We have had Trump before in 2016, we’ve seen what kind of policies he put forward then and we’ve seen what kind of protests took place in response to it. Do you think it will be the same again repeated in 2024 or if not, what is different?

The second term will not be a simple repeat of the first—it’s a much more dangerous time now.

In my article on the logic of Trump, which is in Links and Tempest magazines, one of the things I talk about is Trumpism.

Trump is a jerk—but Trumpism is much bigger than just Trump. You’ve got a mobilisation of a military wing—the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and so on.

You have got a number of people who are ready to be Trump’s advisors and policymakers who are not your standard bureaucrats and standard Republicans. They are going to be Trump loyalists. So, it will be easier for him, and for the Trump movement, to carry out things that are horrible.

There absolutely will be protests. But Trump wants to use the army to repress them and maybe people will be shot down this time. I think that we’ve had a foretaste, but it’s going to be worse this time.

You mentioned a revolutionary strategy to beat Trump. What would that look like?

What I’d like to see, is an organisation like People Before Profit in Ireland. It is engaged in serious electoral activity, but also in social movements and puts forward a socialist vision.

We need to use Marxism to figure out what’s what and what is to be done. And, we need to express that in a way that working class people can understand and respond to.

That’s missing but that’s what’s needed. And then, the specific tactics that would have to be worked out by such a party.

Isn’t it really hard to break through electorally in the US, compared to Ireland?

Absolutely, it is hard. In Allegheny County, where I’m active in Pittsburgh, we have been able to form some working relationship with socialists and radicals who are in the Democratic Party not sucked into the apparatus. Their instincts are good. There is some stuff that could be done there—and, ultimately, we are going to have to run independent of the Democratic Party.

What Harris and Nancy Pelosi emphasises, is that it is a capitalist party. When push comes to shove, it is not our party. It’s not on our side, it’s on the side of the capitalists, the billionaires and the corporations.

I think that it would be difficult to make that breakthrough that you are talking about. But on a local level, there are actual struggles on the ground and some electoral work we could do. It will take a while to accomplish that.

My concern is we may not have all the time we need. It’s not only with the catastrophe of Trump, but also the climate catastrophe that’s continuing to unfold. My book on Vladimir Lenin factors in the notion of responding to catastrophe and forging revolution—that’s what he did and it’s what we must do. But how much time do we have? That is the question in my mind.